'I.GILL' marking on a 1796 LC

Juan J. Perez
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'I.GILL' marking on a 1796 LC

Post by Juan J. Perez » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:16 pm

Hello to the forum,

I've come into possession of a P1796 LC sword in decent and untouched condition, marked on the spine with 'I.GILL' . Although the 'I.' is not completely clear, I'm quite sure it is not a 'T' from Thomas, who would be the 3rd Thomas Gill, who I've been told ended his production (or even died?) in 1801.

But I'm unsure about this 'I.GILL'. I've found in the net some trade cards of their business, which made reference to both of them: 'T. & I. Gill', and along with that I know of the existence of some John Gill... could 'I' stand for John in a somehow latinized version (Iohannes)? When was active John?

Or, could be 'I. Gill' another member of the family?

Thanks for any information you can provide!

Juan J.

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Richard
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Re: 'I.GILL' marking on a 1796 LC

Post by Richard » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:12 pm

Hi Juan
The renowned Thomas Gill died in 1801. He left three sons: Thomas, James and John. John Gill took over his father’s business in Birmingham whilst it appears that Thomas and James set themselves up in London. I believe therefore that T & I Gill is Thomas and James and, as you rightly say, James used the latinised version of his name to distinguish between himself and his brother John.
Richard
PS, can we see a photo ?

Bryce
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Re: 'I.GILL' marking on a 1796 LC

Post by Bryce » Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:40 pm

G'day Guys,
I have a couple of Gill sabres from the time of the renowned Thomas Gill and they are simply stamped "Gill" with no initial. Not sure if this holds true for all of his swords.

Richard,
Don't you mean that I Gill is actually John Gill?

Cheers,

Bryce
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Juan J. Perez
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Re: 'I.GILL' marking on a 1796 LC

Post by Juan J. Perez » Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:25 am

Thank you both for your suggestions. By the moment I have not had any free time during the day to take some pictures in sunlight, but I'll manage to take at least one of the markings. In the spine there is also something like a 'B', one third down the blade, more or less. I assume it could represent a bend point for some test. Along with that, on the side of the blade, there is a number 1 under a crown, which I take for an acceptance mark of the Tower.

Here you have the commercial card I mentioned before. I assume then that T stands for Thomas and I for Iacobus (James), in London as Richard pointed out, but also still in Birmingham ... commercial pitch?
Gill.png
Juan J.
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Richard
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Re: 'I.GILL' marking on a 1796 LC

Post by Richard » Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:22 pm

Juan
I suspect Thomas (T) and John (I) Gill had their outlet in London but the manufacture took place in Birmingham. Here's my I GILL 1796
Richard
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Jim McDougall
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Re: 'I.GILL' marking on a 1796 LC

Post by Jim McDougall » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:01 pm

My M1796 (date 1815) is marked I GILL in this same manner Richard. I had always thought it John Gill. At some point in the way distant past it seemed I had seen a reference to I GILL having a contract for these in 1811, but never relocated it.

Juan....its great to see you here!!! Its been a long time!!! :)

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Richard
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Re: 'I.GILL' marking on a 1796 LC

Post by Richard » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:03 am

Jim, Juan

It could well be John Gill rather than James. We can never be absolutely sure about these things and I didn't mean to advocate James so strongly.

Richard

Juan J. Perez
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Re: 'I.GILL' marking on a 1796 LC

Post by Juan J. Perez » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:42 pm

Yes, Richard, I agree with you... the only sure thing about sword makers is that nothing is sure!

BTW, the marking on my sword it pretty much the same as on your 1796 HC.

Juan

PS: Hi, Jim, nice to meet you here too! It's a small world, a very small one! ;-)

Juan J. Perez
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Re: 'I.GILL' marking on a 1796 LC

Post by Juan J. Perez » Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:42 am

Some pictures of my sabre, showing the I.GILL marking (or at least, that's what I think it reads). Sorry about the awful background, I've lost my old one...
DSCN4175 - copia (1280x833).jpg
DSCN4179 - copia (1280x960).jpg
DSCN4184 - copia (1280x960).jpg
Best,
Juan J.
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mark cloke
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Re: 'I.GILL' marking on a 1796 LC

Post by mark cloke » Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:15 pm

Hi,
I'm pretty sure the I. Gill is John Gill. James is only listed in partnership with his brothers (after the death of their father in 1801) for a very short period. The partnership dissolved in 1803 after the last auction of their fathers estate and he died in 1806. I can recommend a good article on the history of the family in Richard's book :-)

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