Collectors showcase

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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby Marbot » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:23 am

Micheal,

A officer was ( within his regiment style) free to buy a personal weapon, they needed to pay their own sabre. Ofcourse their were some reglementair models for specific functions. But a luitenant from a wealthy family could buy a silvered sabre or a "poor" colonel could have a simple sabre...as far as i know nothing to to do with line or light troops...If you have specific pictures of pieces it's easyer to say something...
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby michael » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:35 am

thanks for getting back, i don,t have any silver plated swords in my collection at this time, but was just interested to know if the french dress codes included the colour of their swords fittings to match their lace colour. michael
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby Marbot » Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:31 pm

No not really i think. Ofcourse silvered swords ( or silver parts) were fancy. Their is no rule but i think saw more silvered sabres with the Chasseur á cheval and specific functions like Commisaire des Guerres and services like de Santé ect. My statement is only from expierince knowing from museums some of this swords were dedicated to. Anyway, i love them :-)
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby Sabre » Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:22 am

Were these type of Officers sword carried into battle or did they have a standard issue type sword for fighting.

Mike
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby Gordons Horse » Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:40 am

Sword of General Sir John Forbes, G.C.B. Honorary Colonel, 33rd Queens Own Light Cavalry. Forbes first served during the 1st Afghan War and the Scinde Campaign.

He then acquired the sword from Garden & Son 200 Piccadilly, London; the same sword then used by Forbes during his active service in Persia 1856-57,when he lead the charge of the 3rd Bombay Light Cavalry at Kooshab in 1857 (Severely wounded). On recovering from his wound, he then served with distinction during the Indian Mutiny.
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby Will Mathieson » Sun Nov 27, 2016 4:08 am

Gordon an absolutely stunning sword with superb history.
The placement of the proved disc is distinct . I find the lines of this sword flow very nicely.
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby MikeShowers » Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:44 am

Gordon,
Now this is the kind of sword that I most enjoy. It sets the imagination on fire.
Cheers,
Mike
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby JordanPL » Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:35 pm

What a wonderul sword Gordon, absolutely stunning!
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby JordanPL » Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:36 pm

How about showing us Dayrell's sword :)
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby mark cloke » Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:21 pm

Great sword! I'm facinated by that proof disk. Does it look like it was added later?
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby Gordons Horse » Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:59 pm

Thanks one and all for the words of appreciation.

Mark, as for the proof slug, this is typical of earlier solid tang blades so under the name of Garden however, I suggest that as solid tang officers swords from the pre mutiny period 1853-1857 are less common, some of the characteristics are not commonly recognised.
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby mikeroyle45 » Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:30 am

Another sword for show & tell. This particular piece I saw in a collection back in the mid 1970,s and whilst it was not for sale at the time I was always on the search for a similar type. As my collecting has in the main favoured cavalry troopers swords, one always has a desire for the odd variance in collecting particularly for Cavalry Officers & Blue & Gilt swords. I often wondered what happened to this sword that I remembered as an “Attack Sword” with a short blade. Eventually I tracked down the owner who had long changed his collecting interests, still had the sword and who was willing to part with it after nearly 38 years. The sword I think could be French although the scabbard, chape and top locket to me look very English, however the B&G etchings I am thinking French? Hopefully the Forum can provide some answers that may put this sword into its proper category.
Regards to all.
Mike Royle
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Attack Sword 5.JPG
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby mikeroyle45 » Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:49 am

English Attack Swords sold by Fagan many years ago and a 65th Infantry from a friend in South Africa for comparison of hilts
which I feel have similarities to my Attack sword.
Mike Royle
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Gill Attack Sword.JPG
Fagan Attack Sword.JPG
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby Bryce » Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:09 am

G'day Mike,

Beautiful sword! What is the blade length?

My vote is for German made for a continental officer. Does it have a Solingen mark on the back edge?

Cheers,
Bryce
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby Bryce » Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:52 am

Having said that, the ivory grip does suggest there is a British connection?
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby mikeroyle45 » Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:40 am

Hi Bryce,
knew I forgot something!!
Blade length is 24".
No visible marks unfortunately on the blade or Hilt.
The only marking is on the Tang as per picture which may assist perhaps.
Like so many others it is a beautiful sword and one can only wonder why the artisan who made it or put it together
did not leave his calling card.
Mike Royle.
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Tang Marking.JPG
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby Richard » Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:35 am

Hi Mike

Thanks for posting this - so-called 'attack guard' swords are not a subject we've covered here before but most interesting I think.

First as regards your sword: I think the blade is typically Solingen in style from the last quarter of the 18thC and one commonly found on British officers' swords from that time when London cutlers in particular seemed very keen on Solingen blades. I would therefore say British and echo Bryce's comment about the ivory grip favouring such an attribution. It looks to me as though the blade has been cut down to its 24 in. length and probably the scabbard was made to suit at the same time. Is that your feeling? Anyway, the b&g decoration is superb.

Regarding other examples: the 65th Light Infantry sword you illustrated appeared in Wallis & Wallis's famous sale 189 in 1972 (lot 1163). It is described there as having a blade by 'Thomas Gill Birmingham' which is also dated 1790 and has his rubric 'Warranted Never to Fail'. The scabbard however is by Bland & Foster so clearly not original to the sword. There was also another in the same sale - lot 1157 which is described as having a blade by J J Runkel with typical Solingen decoration of Turk's head, mounted hussar, etc. The blade and scabbard (which is by Knubley) are also marked '77'. Lastly Sotheby's HoH sale in 2005 had another example at lot 3673 but this looks far more Germanic in style.

Richard
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby sword335 » Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:57 pm

Mike,
I owned this sword ( or one that was identical in both form and condition) for a few years in the seventies. I reluctantly sold it to an Australian dealer when I was rather hard up and have often thought about it as a sword I really regret selling.
I always thought of it as British and remember discussing it with the late Peter Hayes at the NAM who also thought it British.

Naturally, if you ever get tired of it I'm would love to see it again !

Chris.

P.S. Why was it taken apart ?
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby Brimage » Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:26 am

Hi Mike

Fabulous sword, when ever these appear at auction they always remind me of hunting swords. I don't think the blade has been cut down as other examples I have seen are invariably of a similar short length. I wonder if they where intended for use by Naval Officers, I would have thought the short blade and folding guard might be an advantage on-board ship.

Cheers Cathey and Rex
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby mikeroyle45 » Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:32 am

Hi Chris.
History or in this case a form of provenance from the past is always welcome and I believe that this item was from your collection all those years ago. The Australian dealer’s were Michael Oleinikoff and Neville Gibson from “The Armoury “ in North Brighton Adelaide wo were quite active in bringing into Australia some of the better quality arms that one usually never saw locally. The owner I bought the sword from, beat me to it at a military fair in Melbourne from The Armoury all those years ago.
In response to your question P.S. Why was it taken apart ? It was taken apart when I acquired it years ago to inspect why the moveable knuckle bow was difficult to operate which was due to the catch mechanism being at fault. This was in reality a very minor internal repair and now operates as it should. NB:The hilt can be removed quite easily by unscrewing the multi-facetted nut with no fear of damage to the rest of the sword.
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby sword335 » Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:46 am

Yes, it was Neville that I dealt with all those years ago. I sold him a number of good Georgian swords. I struggled to get a reasonable price from English collectors but he was happy to pay the price. I think the Aussie dollar was quite strong against the pound at the time. When he bought this sword I told him it was expensive but worth it. He was a bit reluctant to buy it but when he got it he sold it at the first Fair he went to and then phoned me to ask if I had any more like it ! It was certainly the best that I ever sold him, the only one I would recognise and the only one I would like to own again.

Chris.
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby mikeroyle45 » Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:48 am

Hi Richard,
Thanks for your comments and suggestion that the blade length may have beenncut down. Taking on board that situation I have made an attempt to protract the blade by a further 4”-5” using the principal of continuing the curvature both on the top edge of the sword as well as the cutting edge. As can be seen on my template the blade width on the left hand side ends up at approximately 5/8” wide. The other pic shows the top edge which has a very uniform taper that I would expect to see and at the tip of the clip point it is very thin. Extending the blade as I have shown would make the sword extremely flimsy at the 5/8” width mark. I am of the opinion however that it is what it is and it would have been nice to have something to compare it with. Maybe Chris could comment further on what he remembers when he owned it originally.
Mike Royle
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby sword335 » Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:41 pm

It never occurred to me that the blade had been cut down. The sword is beautifully balanced as it is that I'm sure it was made that length. Also, if the scabbard had been longer I would have expected to see three mounts rather than two and to have suspension rings. I don't think the locket has ever had one and a curved blade much longer would have had more than just a frog hook at that period.

Chris.
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby Richard » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:17 am

Obviously those who hold the sword in their hand (or who have held it in their hand) are much better able to judge whether the blade has been cut down than someone (like me) judging from photos only. The reason I asked is that it is that I thought it unusual to see this type of hilt with such a short blade. But no matter, a superb sword nonetheless.
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby mikeroyle45 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:48 am

I’m posting details of a sword that I purchased some time back which I believe to be a Horse Guards or Horse Grenadier Guards sword. The sword is very similar to that shown in Richards book page 180-181. The sword has a 1¼” wide blade at the shoulder, however the blade length is 35¾”. I would suggest that the original blade would have been longer due to the rounded point, but again doubt that it may have been 38” as in Richards book. The sword blade has two fullers, one along the spine the other being central for the full length.
The hilt markings as shown in Richards book in my opinion indicate that that this sword maybe similar as I can see a single G on the quillon. I have also posted a pic of the marking on the backpiece and whilst they are very weak I found that by zooming in on the pic I can see 2d possibly. I would appreciate the forum members comments regarding this along with any member who has one with a scabbard I very much would like to see a pic.
Mike Royle
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