Collectors showcase

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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby sword335 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:06 pm

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Hi Mike,
I also have a sword with the Horse Guards or Horse Grenadier Guards hilt. Mine has the spirally fluted pommel as illustrates in the chapter on officer's swords. However, the blade, which is straight with twin fullers is plain except for the signature "Andria Ferrara" in the fullers on each side. The blade is 34 1/4" long. The hilt has no markings at all that I can see.
The scabbard is leather with steel mounts and I would think that originally there would have also been a middle mount with hanging ring.


Chris.
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby mikeroyle45 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:01 am

Hi Chris and thanks for your reply. I would appreciate a closer picture of both the Throat section and Chape section from both the front and back.
Whilst your sword is for an officer I believe that the scabbard would most likely of been similar to that of a trooper. In respect to a central ringed mount I
believe during the period in question they most likely did not exist, most leather scabbards that have the throats mounted with a central button were used
with a cross belt. As I do make scabbards I am hoping that the close up pics will enable me to complete my sword. Once again I appreciate your contribution.
Mike Royle
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby sword335 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:23 pm

Hi Mike,
Attached are the photos as requested. If you need any more info let me know. As far as the middle mount is concerned, I've seen a number of swords over the years with both frog studs and hanging rings. As the swords usually date from the transitional period of the late 18th.C. I presume they were fitted to allow alternative ways of wearing the sword. Quite possibly the owner of my sword used the frog stud and discarded the superfluous hanging ring.
Please post some photos of the scabbard when you've finished it. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like to see it.
Regards,

Chris.
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby sword335 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:48 pm

With reference to the above post here are some other examples of swords with both frog studs and hanging rings. If anyone has other ideas of why there should be both let's hear them.

Chris.
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby mikeroyle45 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:54 am

Hi Chris,
Many thanks for your detailed pictures of scabbards in particular as well as the sword hilts.
I can at least now implement the making of a scabbard that will hopefully be in keeping
with my sword as posted.
Regards, Mike Royle
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby Richard » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:34 pm

Saturday 20 January 2018 and its a pretty horrible day weatherwise here in the UK, so here's something I hope will cheer everybody up. From the top and then right to left:

Sword of Lt. Col. Fiennes Sanderson Miller (1783-1862), 6th Inniskilling Dragoons (carried at Waterloo)

Sword of Lt. Col. David Home (1732-1809), 2nd (Royal North British Dragoons)

Sword of General Francis Hugonin (1768-1836), 4th (Queen's Own) Dragoons

Sword of Lt. Abraham Ludlow (1779-1822), 2nd (Royal North British Dragoons)

An unusual use of the dining room table !
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby Richard » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:37 pm

On the same note, here's a few coffin hilts. Top to bottom:

Sword by Thomas Gill

The 'Chinese sword' some of you will remember from another post (well, that's how the auction house described it!)

10th Light Dragoons

Royal Horse Artillery
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby sword335 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:39 pm

SHOW OFF !

But seriously, all very nice swords Richard. I have seen most of these swords but another look is just what is needed to brighten up a grey day.

How about some more of people's favourites or new aquisitions ?

Chris.
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby Richard » Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:28 pm

sword335 wrote:SHOW OFF
Chris.


Yes, haha. I just thought it might be nice to see them all lined up together.
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby sword335 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:15 pm

Well, this is my most recent sword acquisition. Already know as the Ugly Sword ! Most unusual hilt but does all appear to be right. The blade is plain with a central fuller. The condition is excellent with virtually all the gilding on the hilt and mounts and polish on the blade and a super shagreen covered scabbard.
I first came across this sword some years ago when it was sold in auction to a certain dealer not known for selling bargains. It came up again in a sale late last year in what was a deceased collection and I bought it for rather less than it made nearly ten years ago ! I can only presume that people were put off by it's rather odd appearance.

What do you think ?

Chris.
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby Will Mathieson » Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:40 pm

Chris can you post a photo of the blade? The guard seems to have French influence and a Scottish inscription on the scabbard.
Do you think the round pommel is a later addition for repair?
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby Bryce » Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:29 am

G'day Richard,

Very handsome lineup of swords! What sort of a dopey bunch are we down-under to let David Home's swords return to the UK?

G'day Chris,

That is certainly a very interesting hilt design. I second Will, can we please see some photos of the blade.

Cheers,
Bryce
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby JordanPL » Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:23 am

Fantastic Richard!
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby sword335 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:47 am

Here's a photo of the sword out of the scabbard. An unusual blade shape but not made for use.
The crossguard is a Roman fasces, exactly the same as found on the Lloyds Patriotic Fund swords so very English. There is a small repair at the top of the grip but the pommel shape does appear to be original and the knuckle guard chain and lion mask boss mount also look original so it's difficult to see how it could be different.

It was presented to Major Patrick Walker of the Western Regiment of Midlothian Volunteer Infantry, 5th. November 1805.
I've yet to find out much about him.

Chris.
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby Will Mathieson » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:05 pm

I didn't see the lion mask boss until you mentioned it, now I see how it fits in. The Roman fasces I mistook as French, shame on me!
The sword has a wonderful blade type and quite rare I would think.
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby Bryce » Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:48 pm

G'day Chris,

That really is a "different" looking sword. I wonder what Major Walker thought when he was presented with it? Do you think the three crescent moons on the langets are symbolic of something or just decorative? Some members of the Walker family have three crescent moons on their coat of arms.

Cheers,
Bryce
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby Jerry Cottrell » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:01 pm

FRENCH SWORD WALL DISPLAY

It's a very cold March Sunday so I thought I would put up a few swords for general interest and enjoyment.

A collection of French cavalry swords from the revolutionary and Napoleonic era.

From top:

1. M AnXI light cavalry officers sabre 'à la chasseur'. Blue & gilt blade by Schnitzler & Kirschbaum (S&K) of Solingen, Germany.
2. M AnXI light cavalry troopers sabre. Produced at Klingenthal, August 1812.
3. M1790 chasseur sabre, early revolutionary period 1790-1.
4. M1784 heavy cavalry officer’s sword “à Garde de Bataille”. Produced at Klingenthal, Feb 1812.
5. M AnXI cuirassier sword. Produced at Klingenthal, Oct 1810. Original sword knot dated 1856 suggest sword was reissued under Napoleon III.

Jerry
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby Bryce » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:51 pm

Nice Collection Jerry,
Can you show us the blades as well?
Cheers,
Bryce
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby Jerry Cottrell » Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:39 am

Swords with blades :D

Jerry

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M AnXI light cavalry officers sabre 'à la chasseur'.


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M AnXI light cavalry troopers sabre. In M AnIX scabbard.


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M1790 chasseur sabre, early revolutionary period


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M1784 heavy cavalry officer’s sword “à Garde de Bataille”.


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M AnXI cuirassier sword.
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby Bryce » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:37 pm

Thanks Jerry.
Very nice,
Bryce
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby John Fair » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:49 am

Here are some swords from my small collection sans scabbards (no room in the picture) that might be of interest. Top photograph:

1. Cameronians Officers sword to Lt. Colonel RA MacAllan
2. 1892 Rifle Pattern Sword to Major R Adams, 51st Sikhs (Killed outside of Baghdad 1917)
3. 1896 HC Officers Sword to Major General Vaughan, Chief of Staff to Allenby commander of the Cavalry Division in France 1914 and charged with the 21st Lancers at Omdurman in 1898 with this sword.

Bottom Photograph

1. Scots Guards Officers Sword to Captain JS Thorpe MC Scots Guards (Killed on the Somme September 1916; fought in the Boer War)
2. 1892 Pattern Sword to Major General Charles Simpson, Colonel of the Lincolnshire Regiment. (Wrote the GW history of the Regiment in 1922)
3. 1892 Pattern Sword with 1845 blade to Brigadier General AC Lovett, Gloucestershire Regiment.
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby Will Mathieson » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:14 am

Hello John can you post photos of Major General Vaughans sword? Great history of his sword and the others. Appears to be a patent hilt?
I have a Hawkes made engineers sword of Capt. E.C. Midwinter R.E. who was at Omdurman and wrote a short telegram which I have, one line reads "great fight".
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby Richard » Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:08 am

Here's my latest acquisition. I know I'm supposed to be strictly a cavalry collector but this one has such a superb story behind it, I just couldn't resist.

So, it's a presentation sword from Lt. Col. Herford (23rd Foot) to Lieutenant William Bace of the 1st Battalion, 61st Foot for his 'valour and support' at the battle of Toulouse 1814. The 61st Foot played a very prominent part in this, the final battle of the Peninsular campaign, losing a total of 19 officers, 8 sergeants and 153 rank and file dead or wounded. Such were their losses that they acquired the nickname 'the Flowers of Toulouse' on account of so many dead left lying on the field. Having lost all senior officers during the course of the action, command of the regiment then devolved to Lt. Bace, a very junior officer (although an experienced soldier) who led them for several hours and then brought them off the field at the close. Bace received the Army Gold Medal for Toulouse but must also have sufficiently impressed Lt Col. Herford to have been given this sword.

William Bace (1779-1852) had started his military career as a 'ranker' enlisting at the age of 19 in 1798. He served with the 61st at the Cape of Good Hope from 1799-1801 and then in Egypt from 1802 to 1803, following which the 61st joined the garrison at Malta where Bace married Mary Ann McDonald in 1804. He then took part in the campaigns in Italy and Sicily 1805-06 before returning home in 1807 and joining the 2nd Battalion of the 61st in Guernsey and then Ireland as Quartermaster Sargeant. On 09 February 1809, Bace was commissioned Ensign and Adjutant in the 61st and two years later on 2 October 1811 he was promoted Lieutenant and Adjutant. Bace was still at home with the 2nd Battalion when he received his commissions but the 1st Battalion had already joined Wellington's army in Portugal in 1809. Obviously Bace was not content to be missing the action for in 1812 he requested permission from the Duke of York to re-join the 1st Battalion. Such permission having been granted, he made his own way to Portugal via a merchant vessel and re-joined the 1st Battalion to take part in the passage of the Huebra (1812), the blockade of Pamplona (1813), the battles of the Pyrennes, the Nivelle, the Nive (all 1813) and then the blockade of Bayonne (1813-14), the battle of Orthes (1814) and finally Toulouse on 10 April 1814. His army record states that he was present 'from first to last' in every action in which the 61st were involved from 1812 onwards.

Following the end of the Peninsula campaign, Bace returned home and went on the half pay lists from 1816 until his death in 1852. He was promoted Captain in 1843 and also served as Assistant Deputy Quartmaster General in Dublin for a total of 17 years.

Quite a career and quite some sword .....

Richard
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby sword335 » Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:32 am

As you say Richard, quite a sword. There can’t have been many Lieutenants that were awarded an Army Gold Medal. It might be worth doing a count although I would have thought someone might have already done it.
The odd Infantry sword keeps creeping in to your collection so I’m looking forward to the book ! I won’t mind if you restrict it to just Georgian Swords.
By the way, did anyone here get the Royal Scots 1803 that was sold recently ?

Chris.
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Re: Collectors showcase

Postby Richard » Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:10 am

sword335 wrote: There can’t have been many Lieutenants that were awarded an Army Gold Medal. It might be worth doing a count although I would have thought someone might have already done it.
Chris.


Chris

1702 Gold Medals given out but only 6 to lieutenants:

William Mann. 57th Foot, Albuhera
Felix Troughton, RA, Fort Detriot
Thomas Power, 47th Foot, St Sebastian
Wiliam Livingstone Robe, RA, Nive and Nivelle (2 awards)
William Bace, 61st Foot, Toulouse

(the above from 'The British Army against Napoleon- Facts, Lists and Trivia 1805-15' by Burnham and McGuigan, 2010)

Richard

PS, Lt. Col. Herford who gave the sword to Bace received Gold Medals for Orthes and Toulouse
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