G or GG stamp on blade ricasso

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Re: G or GG stamp on blade ricasso

Postby Bryce » Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:52 am

G'day Guys,

Here is Dmitry's 4thRIDG sword marked to Osborn and Gunby, with the single G stamp.

Cheers,
Bryce
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Re: G or GG stamp on blade ricasso

Postby Bryce » Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:29 am

Another G stamped Osborn ladder hilt.
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Re: G or GG stamp on blade ricasso

Postby Richard » Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:38 am

Well done Bryce, it’s looking pretty conclusive.
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Re: G or GG stamp on blade ricasso

Postby Bryce » Thu May 24, 2018 9:56 pm

G'day Guys,

As all Osborn marked swords appear to have a G stamp, but some Osborn and Gunby swords do not, the most likely explanation is that at some point Osborn and Gunby stopped using the G stamp. I would like to try and narrow down what date this may have been.

If anyone has a dateable Osborn and Gunby officer's sword, could you please check it for a G stamp on the ricasso and post the results here.

Cheers,
Bryce
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Re: G or GG stamp on blade ricasso

Postby Bryce » Mon May 28, 2018 6:55 am

Came across a G stamped 1796 Heavy cavalry dress sword marked to Gibson, Thompson and Craig. Gibson, Thompson and Craig are described as "Clothiers" in the Edinburgh Directory, so I think we are safe to assume they didn't make the blade. It could have been supplied by Osborn.


I have also started a thread on this subject at Viking Sword to try and flush out more discussion.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthrea ... c2&t=23957

Cheers,
Bryce
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Re: G or GG stamp on blade ricasso

Postby Bryce » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:44 am

G'day Guys,

I am not sure that Osborn and Gunby did stop using the G stamp. Maybe all Osborn and Gunby officers' swords do have G stamps. One of the reasons that I thought that not all Osborn and Gunbys had a G stamp was that my Osborn and Gunby 1803 grenadiers sabre didn't have one. Turns out it does. I saw an identical example on the net with a G stamp, so decided to have another look at mine. It does have a single G stamp low down on the ricasso and partly hidden by the guard. This highlights how hard they can be to spot.

Cheers,

Bryce
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Re: G or GG stamp on blade ricasso

Postby Bryce » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:41 am

G'day Guys,

Something I have just noticed is that there may be a difference in the "G" used by Osborn compared to Osborn and Gunby. The G used by Osborn and Gunby as in my 1803 Grenadier Officer's sabre above is sans serif, whereas the G used by Osborn isn't. I am not sure yet if this holds true for all Osborn and Gunby swords.


Cheers,

Bryce
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Osborn and Gunby 1796 Infantry.jpg
Osborn and Gunby G
Osborn G 1.jpg
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Re: G or GG stamp on blade ricasso

Postby Matt Easton » Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:05 pm

I am having an O&G 1796 officer's sabre repaired at the moment and that has the GG right at the junction between the blade and tang - it would have been difficult to see at all if the hilt had not been dismantled.

And as you know I also have two other O&G swords at the moment that both have the GG.
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Re: G or GG stamp on blade ricasso

Postby Bryce » Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:51 pm

Thanks Matt,
Was one of those the Osborn and Gunby variant blade?
Can you tell me which G is used, the G first used by Osborn or the sans serif G used by Osborn and Gunby?

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Bryce
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Re: G or GG stamp on blade ricasso

Postby Matt Easton » Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:00 am

Hi Bryan,
I haven't actually checked the clipped-point one yet, as it's in for restoration at the moment. I'll check it when I next get the chance. These marks can be really difficult to photograph though!! I tried on the nearest one I have to hand - I can see the GG is there, but it is filled with gilt and a little corrosion and without more time and light I couldn't get a good photo.
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Re: G or GG stamp on blade ricasso

Postby Bryce » Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:14 pm

G'day Matt,
Thanks for that. I agree, these G stamps can be very hard to see and twice as hard to photograph.
Cheers,
Bryce
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Re: G or GG stamp on blade ricasso

Postby Bryce » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:03 am

G'day Guys,

Another Osborn and Gunby marked sword came my way recently. It has a short, very curved 69cm blade with a brass, canted 1796 light cavalry style hilt and brass scabbard. The blade is etched for most of its length with stands of arms and foliage etc, but no royal cypher or coat of arms. On the ricasso it has a single G stamp. This is the sans serif G that seems to be associated with Osborn and Gunby. I am yet to come across an Osborn and Gunby marked sword that has the same style G that Osborn marked swords have.


Cheers,

Bryce
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Re: G or GG stamp on blade ricasso

Postby Richard » Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:21 am

Hi Bryce

So, just to sum up where we are and a couple of questions:

The single G can be found on both Henry Osborn (HO) and Osborn & Gunby (O&G) officer blades but the two makers used a different font (in general, no doubt there will be exceptions!)

The double GG appears sometimes on HO blades - is that in same single G HO font also? Does the double GG also appear on O&G blades? and if so, in the O&G font?

Do we know the difference between a single G and a double GG? (i.e. why?)

Do any HO or O&G blades have no marking at all?

Keep up the good work ....

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Re: G or GG stamp on blade ricasso

Postby Richard » Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:24 am

PS, does that mean my '1814 pattern' pattern Household Cavalry sword (posted above) is by Henry Osborn and therefore pre-1807? That would make it a very early example
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Re: G or GG stamp on blade ricasso

Postby Bryce » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:01 am

G'day Richard,

To answer your questions:

Yes, all Osborn marked swords that I have seen to date have a different G font to Osborn and Gunby marked swords. Both makers can be found with a single G or a double G. When the double G is used, it is the single G stamped twice rather than a single stamp bearing "GG". I am yet to find an Osborn marked sword that doesn't have a G stamp. Most O&G swords also have a G stamp. There are some O&G swords that don't appear to have a G stamp, but this may be because the G is hidden or obscured in some way. I still don't know why some swords were stamped with the G twice. All types of blade (as in 1796 infantry, 1796 light cavalry, heavy cavalry, 1803 etc) can be found with a single or double G stamp.


The G used on your "1814 pattern" sword is a little different to the one found on most Osborn marked swords, as is the G on my basket hilt that started this thread. It is certainly not the sans serif G used by Osborn and Gunby, so is likely to be pre 1807.

Cheers,
Bryce
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Re: G or GG stamp on blade ricasso

Postby Richard » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:52 am

Thank you Bryce, interesting stuff. If G is a HO or O&G internal inspection stamp, then maybe the double G means that it was inspected twice for some reason (guessing though)

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Re: G or GG stamp on blade ricasso

Postby Bryce » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:27 pm

G'day Richard,
I don't think the double G does mean the sword was inspected twice. If you look at the double G stampings, they all look as if they were done at the same time. Both G's are always stamped at the same angle to the blade, which suggests to me they were done at the same time. Jerry's 1796 HC example earlier in the thread shows this well. Also the double G stampings usually look to be centred around the middle of the blade, which again suggests they were done at the same time.

Cheers,
Bryce
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Re: G or GG stamp on blade ricasso

Postby Will Mathieson » Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:10 am

Do the marks GG have the same spacing as on other similar marked swords? Could the GG marking be one steel stamp with 2 G's on the stamp or a single G stamped twice?
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Re: G or GG stamp on blade ricasso

Postby Bryce » Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:53 am

G'day Will,

Definitely a single G stamped twice. The spacing between the G's can vary a little and the G's are often rotated slightly relative to each other. I doubt someone would make a stamp where the letters aren't straight.


Cheers,

Bryce


PS Will have you checked your 1796 ladder hilt for G stamps?
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Osborn and Gunby GG stamp1.jpg
Osborn and Gunby GG stamp1.jpg (44 KiB) Viewed 2505 times
Osborn GG 1.jpg
Osborn GG 1.jpg (45.73 KiB) Viewed 2505 times
1796 HCO Gibson Thompson and Craig GG stamp.jpg
1796 HCO Gibson Thompson and Craig GG stamp.jpg (65.42 KiB) Viewed 2505 times
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Re: G or GG stamp on blade ricasso

Postby Will Mathieson » Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:49 pm

Bryce there are no markings on my sword unfortunately.
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Re: G or GG stamp on blade ricasso

Postby Richard » Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:12 am

Bryce wrote:G'day Richard,
I don't think the double G does mean the sword was inspected twice. If you look at the double G stampings, they all look as if they were done at the same time. Both G's are always stamped at the same angle to the blade, which suggests to me they were done at the same time. Jerry's 1796 HC example earlier in the thread shows this well. Also the double G stampings usually look to be centred around the middle of the blade, which again suggests they were done at the same time.

Cheers,
Bryce


Hi Bryce
That all makes sense to me.
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Re: G or GG stamp on blade ricasso

Postby Bryce » Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:00 am

G'day Guys,

I pulled out my two Osborn marked 1796 light cavalry officers' sabres today to try and get some photos of the G stamps behind the langets. The first which has a blade etched with American motifs has the usual Osborn G stamp. The second which is an early 1796 (I think circa 1796) has a mark that I can't quite make out. I guess the most obvious explanation is that it is a G stamp, that has been corroded over time.

Cheers,
Bryce
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Osborn 1796 LCO American G Stamp.jpg
American Officer 1796LC G stamp
Stamp small.jpg
Circa 1796 Light cavalry sabre
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Re: G or GG stamp on blade ricasso

Postby Matt Easton » Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:13 am

Number 5 in this article of mine is an O&G and it has a single G stamped in the base of the blade by the tang join. There is no way I could photo it, as it's under the langet.

http://www.fioredeiliberi.org/antique-s ... 796weight/
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Re: G or GG stamp on blade ricasso

Postby Matt Easton » Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:48 am

By chance, I just received an Osborn (not O&G) 1796 spadroon and it has the single G at the junction between the blade and tang.
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Re: G or GG stamp on blade ricasso

Postby Bryce » Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:27 pm

Thanks Matt.

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