Start date of MOLE BIRMN?

Moderators: Richard, antiquesword

Start date of MOLE BIRMN?

Postby Matt Easton » Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:53 am

Hi folks,
I have here (entered in my sale at Chiswick Auctions) an 1864 pattern cavalry trooper's sword by Mole.
As you'll see, the makers mark is in the form of MOLE BIRMN.
Jonathan Hopkins and I have had some discussions in the past about when Mole started using that format. We were having trouble finding examples pre-dating the 1890s.... But here it is on an 1864 pattern which presumably doesn't date to after about 1880.
Does anybody here know of other pre-1885 datable examples?
Obviously, establishing this detail is very useful for dating purposes.
Regards,
Matt
Attachments
DSC_9954.JPG
DSC_9953.JPG
DSC_9952.JPG
________________
Schola Gladiatoria - Historical Swordsmanship in London
Easton Antique Arms
User avatar
Matt Easton
 
Posts: 384
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:28 pm
Location: Guildford, Surrey, UK

Re: Start date of MOLE BIRMN?

Postby Will Mathieson » Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:33 pm

Did Mole not mark his swords for export differently than sword for the govt.? I do not see any inspection markings on this sword.
User avatar
Will Mathieson
 
Posts: 470
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:00 pm

Re: Start date of MOLE BIRMN?

Postby Matt Easton » Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:12 pm

I think more swords without inspection markings pass through my hands than with. I don't think anyone besides Britain was using the 1864 pattern.
________________
Schola Gladiatoria - Historical Swordsmanship in London
Easton Antique Arms
User avatar
Matt Easton
 
Posts: 384
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:28 pm
Location: Guildford, Surrey, UK

Re: Start date of MOLE BIRMN?

Postby Will Mathieson » Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:27 pm

Did not the US use them? I come across 1864's less any markings, some nickel plated. Mole did supply the US during their civil war.
User avatar
Will Mathieson
 
Posts: 470
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:00 pm

Re: Start date of MOLE BIRMN?

Postby Will Mathieson » Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:33 pm

Canada also used the 1864p cavalry sword. Report on the state of the militia 1871 indicates 500 swords were purchased, some to replace the 1853's lost in the Cobourg fire.
Cobourg troop swords were each stamped with "COBOURGH" and weapon number.
User avatar
Will Mathieson
 
Posts: 470
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:00 pm

Re: Start date of MOLE BIRMN?

Postby Matt Easton » Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:07 pm

Canadian swords should have been subjected to the same/similar approval markings as British ones, I would have thought. In any case, this is all rather a red herring. This is a discussion about dating the Mole stamp :) I don't think there is any evidence I've ever seen of the 1864 pattern being manufactured after the 1870s. I don't think Mole were making 1864 pattern swords in the 1890s, unless someone knows of some evidence?
________________
Schola Gladiatoria - Historical Swordsmanship in London
Easton Antique Arms
User avatar
Matt Easton
 
Posts: 384
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:28 pm
Location: Guildford, Surrey, UK

Re: Start date of MOLE BIRMN?

Postby Will Mathieson » Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:50 pm

I have no Mole swords with this particular stamp. Two of my 1882p Mole swords are marked "MOLE" as is my 1864p.
User avatar
Will Mathieson
 
Posts: 470
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:00 pm


Return to Antique Swords

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests

Fatal: Not able to open ./cache/data_global.php