Identify Initials, 1834p 2nd Lifeguard sword with patent hil

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Identify Initials, 1834p 2nd Lifeguard sword with patent hil

Postby Will Mathieson » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:20 am

The initials may be G (in reverse) and H I C, not necessarily in that order. The patent hilt would date the sword from about 1845 to 1855?
Andrews 9 Pall Mall faintly etched on the ricasso. Solid flat blade has been period sharpened.
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Re: Identify Initials, 1834p 2nd Lifeguard sword with patent

Postby swordcollector1 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:00 pm

I may have got lucky first time: John Glencairn Carter Hamilton? John was often capitalised as an I rather than J in those days.

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Re: Identify Initials, 1834p 2nd Lifeguard sword with patent

Postby Will Mathieson » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:53 pm

Thank-you John I had forgotten about the J appearing as an I. Would he have purchased the sword as a coronet or a lieutenant?

Hamilton was born in Marseilles, France, the only son of Archibald James Hamilton, 12th of Orbiston (1793–1834), and was educated at Eton College. He served in the 2nd Life Guards, rising to the rank of commissioned cornet in 1847, lieutenant in 1849 and captain in 1854. In 1856 he was appointed major in the Queen’s Own Royal Glasgow and Lower Ward of Lanarkshire Yeomanry Cavalry. Although retiring from the regular Army in 1860, he continued to serve in the Yeomanry until 1885.

He began his political career in 1857 as Liberal Member of Parliament (MP) for Falkirk Burghs, serving for two years. He later sat for Lanarkshire South in 1868–74 and 1880–86. He also served as a Justice of the Peace, and as Deputy Lieutenant and Vice-Lord Lieutenant for Lanarkshire.

In 1886, Hamilton was raised to the peerage as Baron Hamilton of Dalzell. He served in William Ewart Gladstone's government as a Lord-in-waiting from 1892 to 1894.

The Hamiltons made large amounts of money in the nineteenth century, as the lands they held in Lanarkshire were sold for coal exploitation. In the late 1850s and 1860s Hamilton was able to greatly extend his home of Dalzell House, a former tower house outside Motherwell, laying out landscaped grounds at the same time. In 1864 he married Lady Emily Leslie-Melville (died 1882), daughter of David Leslie-Melville, 8th Earl of Leven.
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Re: Identify Initials, 1834p 2nd Lifeguard sword with patent

Postby swordcollector1 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:13 pm

Will Mathieson wrote:Thank-you John I had forgotten about the J appearing as an I. Would he have purchased the sword as a coronet or a lieutenant?


Hard to say, Will - I'm not very familiar with this pattern, but whenever it was purchased he obviously spent quite a bit of money on it (I'm tempted to say that it no doubt served him well in several gruelling parades! :-) ). Although it sounds like the family were extremely well connected, so potentially I guess at any stage in his career until the pattern changed!

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Re: Identify Initials, 1834p 2nd Lifeguard sword with patent

Postby Will Mathieson » Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:57 pm

Yes a few parades as the 2nd LG were absent from any active duty during this period including the Crimea War.
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Re: Identify Initials, 1834p 2nd Lifeguard sword with patent

Postby Richard » Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:49 pm

Hi Will
Regarding the dating of your sword: The ‘Continental hilt’ sword carried by the 2LG and the RHG first appears in the dress regs of 1834. Unfortunately , the subsequent dress regs of 1846, 1857 and 1874 provide a confusing picture of the pattern of sword carried by the 2LG and RHG. Nevertheless it is clear from existing examples that there was a gradual transition away from the ‘continental hilt’ in favour of the 12 stud hilt (as carried by the 1LG) from about 1845-1850 onwards. One might therefore suppose that your man purchased this sword when he was comissioned cornet in 1847. However, the patent solid hilt is not supposed to have appeared until 1853 when it was patented by Reeves. That would suggest he might have bought it when he was commissioned captain in 1854 - but that seems a little late for a continental hilt. Interesting .....
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Re: Identify Initials, 1834p 2nd Lifeguard sword with patent

Postby Will Mathieson » Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:30 am

Hello Richard there are patent hilt type swords pre 1853, I have an infantry 1822/45p Reeves marked "Registered"
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Re: Identify Initials, 1834p 2nd Lifeguard sword with patent

Postby Will Mathieson » Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:39 am

More photos. I added grip wire, some original wire was under the pommel.
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Re: Identify Initials, 1834p 2nd Lifeguard sword with patent

Postby Will Mathieson » Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:54 am

I have used a magnifier to view the "proved" disc and the 2nd LG sword disc is identical to the infantry sword by Reeves I pictured.
This strongly suggests that Reeves made swords for Andrews.
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Re: Identify Initials, 1834p 2nd Lifeguard sword with patent

Postby Richard » Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:26 am

Hi Will
Very interesting, thanks. It does seem logical that the patent would come a little after the invention. A very nice sword, I can't ever recall seeing a 2LG (or RHG) 'Continental hilt' with a PSH, so very rare as well I imagine.
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