British Quill Point Swords

Moderators: Richard, antiquesword

Re: British Quill Point Swords

Postby Bryce » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:52 pm

G'day Richard,
It does have a new home in Australia now.
Was there a maker's name on Ponsonby's sword?
Below are photos of a similar sword that was sold in Australia last year.
Cheers,
Bryce
Attachments
Quill8.jpg
Quill5.jpg
User avatar
Bryce
 
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:36 am
Location: Australia

Re: British Quill Point Swords

Postby Bryce » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:24 am

G'day Guys,

Another one sold at auction recently.

Cheers,
Bryce
Attachments
original[2].jpg
original[3].jpg
User avatar
Bryce
 
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:36 am
Location: Australia

Re: British Quill Point Swords

Postby Gordons Horse » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:19 pm

Hi Richard,

In your opinion, when did John Prosser Jnr. stop making swords?

Gordon
Gordons Horse
 
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:18 pm

Re: British Quill Point Swords

Postby Richard » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:01 am

Hi Gordon

For a long time, I never came across anything at all by Prosser Jnr. and I began to wonder if, in fact, he ever did make any swords as opposed to just selling off old stock left by his father. However, then someone (Matt Easton maybe?) posted something here (but I cant find it) that, by its date or VR cypher, could only have been Prosser Jnr.
Southwick in his article on Prosser in Man-at-arms magazine (May/June 1988) also notes that the accounts at Windsor Castle contain an entry for a sword supplied by Prosser on 01 May 1840. Southwick also notes that, whatever business Prosser Jnr had, went into a sharp decline in 1849.
So, the Windsor Castle sword in 1840 is the last I have heard of but giving him the benefit of doubt, I suppose 1849 is probably a backstop.

Richard
User avatar
Richard
 
Posts: 701
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:18 pm
Location: Bath, Somerset, UK

Re: British Quill Point Swords

Postby Richard » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:10 am

On the subject of Prosser and quill point swords, here is one I used to have (and I'm still not sure why I sold it) marked 'Prosser's Invention, Charing Cross, 1818'.
Attachments
242-2.jpg
242-1.jpg
User avatar
Richard
 
Posts: 701
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:18 pm
Location: Bath, Somerset, UK

Re: British Quill Point Swords

Postby Gordons Horse » Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:06 pm

Richard wrote:Hi Gordon

For a long time, I never came across anything at all by Prosser Jnr. and I began to wonder if, in fact, he ever did make any swords as opposed to just selling off old stock left by his father. However, then someone (Matt Easton maybe?) posted something here (but I cant find it) that, by its date or VR cypher, could only have been Prosser Jnr.
Southwick in his article on Prosser in Man-at-arms magazine (May/June 1988) also notes that the accounts at Windsor Castle contain an entry for a sword supplied by Prosser on 01 May 1840. Southwick also notes that, whatever business Prosser Jnr had, went into a sharp decline in 1849.
So, the Windsor Castle sword in 1840 is the last I have heard of but giving him the benefit of doubt, I suppose 1849 is probably a backstop.

Richard


Hi Richard,

Thanks for the interesting information.

regards,

Gordon
Gordons Horse
 
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:18 pm

Re: British Quill Point Swords

Postby Richard » Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:48 pm

Gordon
Look on ‘jemswords’ - there’s a Mameluke with a VR cypher by ‘Prosser manufacturer to the Queen’
Richard
User avatar
Richard
 
Posts: 701
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:18 pm
Location: Bath, Somerset, UK

Re: British Quill Point Swords

Postby Gordons Horse » Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:29 pm

Hi Richard,

Thanks for that, now added to my research notes.

Regard,

Gordon
Gordons Horse
 
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:18 pm

Re: British Quill Point Swords

Postby Matt Easton » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:23 am

I have a few quill-points, some visibly marked to Prosser and some without markings, including light cavalry, infantry and navy. I'll try to put photos up when possible.
Regards,
Matt
________________
Schola Gladiatoria - Historical Swordsmanship in London
Easton Antique Arms
User avatar
Matt Easton
 
Posts: 338
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:28 pm
Location: Guildford, Surrey, UK

Re: British Quill Point Swords

Postby Gordons Horse » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:23 pm

Richard wrote:On the subject of Prosser and quill point swords, here is one I used to have (and I'm still not sure why I sold it) marked 'Prosser's Invention, Charing Cross, 1818'.


Hi Richard,

There is obviously no doubt as regards the date of invention noted in this particular marking however, for those who have an opinion or in fact have datable swords, I have this question.

What in your opinion is the date of the earliest quill-pointed sword bearing the Prosser name, that also bears the notification, that he Prosser (senior) was "Manufacturer to The King" ?

Gordon
Gordons Horse
 
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:18 pm

Re: British Quill Point Swords

Postby Richard » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:58 am

Gordon

I have always thought that the date of 1818 was either a retrospective claim by Prosser or the date he registered the design given that dateable examples of quill point swords exist before 1818. For example: Celtic-hilted swords of Capt Thomas Fenton 2Ds (c. 1815-17), Major James Hadden 3DGs (c. 1813), Major Norcliffe 4Ds (c. 1814) and Cornet Lord Thomas Cecil 10Hs (1816).

Regarding 'Prosser Manufacturer to the King', I think Prosser only started to use this title after the accession of George IV (with whom he was closely associated) in 1821. So, earliest examples of quill-pints with that marking would be 1821 ....

Richard
User avatar
Richard
 
Posts: 701
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:18 pm
Location: Bath, Somerset, UK

Re: British Quill Point Swords

Postby Bryce » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:23 pm

G'day Gordon,

My 1796 quill point is maker marked to Odell, 17 Old Bond Street. After further research in the London directories I have discovered that Bennet Odell left this address in 1816, making my sword pre 1817 and incidentally, also making it unlikely that the original owner of this sword was Robert Harrington of the 12th Light Dragoons who joined in 1819.

Cheers,
Bryce
User avatar
Bryce
 
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:36 am
Location: Australia

Re: British Quill Point Swords

Postby Gordons Horse » Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:30 pm

Richard wrote:Gordon

I have always thought that the date of 1818 was either a retrospective claim by Prosser or the date he registered the design given that dateable examples of quill point swords exist before 1818. For example: Celtic-hilted swords of Capt Thomas Fenton 2Ds (c. 1815-17), Major James Hadden 3DGs (c. 1813), Major Norcliffe 4Ds (c. 1814) and Cornet Lord Thomas Cecil 10Hs (1816).

Regarding 'Prosser Manufacturer to the King', I think Prosser only started to use this title after the accession of George IV (with whom he was closely associated) in 1821. So, earliest examples of quill-pints with that marking would be 1821 ....

Richard


Richard,

Of the swords that you are aware of that pre-date 1818, how many with a quill pointed have the Prosser name on the blade?

Gordon
Gordons Horse
 
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:18 pm

Re: British Quill Point Swords

Postby Gordons Horse » Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:36 pm

Bryce wrote:G'day Gordon,

My 1796 quill point is maker marked to Odell, 17 Old Bond Street. After further research in the London directories I have discovered that Bennet Odell left this address in 1816, making my sword pre 1817 and incidentally, also making it unlikely that the original owner of this sword was Robert Harrington of the 12th Light Dragoons who joined in 1819.

Cheers,
Bryce


Hi Bryce,

What I'm trying to quantify, is how many quill pointed blades are people aware of that are actually marked with the Prosser name, and pre-date 1818.

Gordon
Gordons Horse
 
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:18 pm

Re: British Quill Point Swords

Postby Bryce » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:49 am

G'day Gordon,

When you look deeper into this, I don't think there really is any evidence that Prosser invented the quill-point, apart from his claim in 1818. There were obviously many quill-points made before 1818, by many different makers. Unfortunately the earlier datable swords don't seem to have any maker marks on them.

Cheers,
Bryce
User avatar
Bryce
 
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:36 am
Location: Australia

Previous

Return to Antique Swords

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron
Fatal: Not able to open ./cache/data_global.php