Auction news

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Re: Auction news

Postby Will Mathieson » Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:53 pm

It is noted in the description "On the sheath, a 1 1/2 inch section of engraving has been polished off just below the first suspension band."
I know what this tells me :o
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Re: Auction news

Postby Richard » Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:20 pm

Do we know who was the genuine recipient of Wlkinson no. 18847?
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Re: Auction news

Postby Will Mathieson » Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:40 pm

The number does correspond to the year as etched on the blade, even if they knew the actual number of an original to this person, being the incorrect sword, the details of length etc. may not match.
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Re: Auction news

Postby Swordmaker » Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:03 am

Will Mathieson wrote:The number does correspond to the year as etched on the blade, even if they knew the actual number of an original to this person, being the incorrect sword, the details of length etc. may not match.


SWORD NUMBER 18847

It's "no name" proof slip, Medium infantry with straight blade mounted on
27 February 1873.

Hardly what when expected with silver plate, etched presentation blade etc etc. and surely would have the name entered in the proof stub even if the etched blade was supplied to a Jeweller!

And as I am sure all have noticed the etch style of the presentation inscription and the Wilkinson Pall Mall etc-Chalk and cheese!!!

SEE Below for more in depth details.
Robert
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Re: Auction news

Postby Swordmaker » Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:47 am

Swordmaker wrote:
Will Mathieson wrote:The number does correspond to the year as etched on the blade, even if they knew the actual number of an original to this person, being the incorrect sword, the details of length etc. may not match.


SWORD NUMBER 18847
the proof docket states:
Proved 19th February 1873

It's "no name" proof slip, Medium infantry with straight blade mounted on
27 February 1873.
32 inch blade
P Tang Hilt
(Whoever used this docket to 'fabricate the sword and blade either didn't know what P Tang meant or couldn't read the entry which to those of us who wrestle with the writing know too well!)
Mounted 27-2-1873
Medium Infantry
Blade Embossed----No entry
Sold To------ No Entry

Hardly what when expected with silver plate, ivory grip, engraved scabbard, etched presentation blade etc etc. and surely would have the name entered in the proof stub even if supplied to a Jeweler or outfitter!

And as I am sure all have noticed the etch style of the presentation inscription and the Wilkinson Pall Mall etc-Chalk and cheese!!! As said, this lettering is just TOO perfect and as suggested looks like a computer generated script. Compared to other inscriptions of the same date, one can see that acid etching even by Rowe and others was NOT a perfect science and one gets variations in letter thickness etc from this hand work.

I have also checked the Wilkinson Presentation etchings by Name and Regiment Ledgers and under Gifford can find no entry. Also under regiment there is only one for the 83rd but this is dated 1846.

Robert
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Re: Auction news

Postby Swordmaker » Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:59 am

Just to give some background information.
He was educated at Harrow and in 1869 entered the 83rd Foot On the death of his father in 1872, he became 3rd Baron Gifford.
In 1874, at the age of 23, Gifford was a Lieutenant in the 2nd Battalion, 24th Foot During the Ashanti when the following deed took place for which he was awarded the Victoria Cross:
In 1876, Gifford left the 24th Foot, moving to the 57th Foot In 1878 he was in Cyprus and in 1879 he was ADC to Sir Garnet Wolseley in the Zulu War 1879. Shortly afterwards he retired from the Army as a Brevet Major.
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Re: Auction news

Postby Will Mathieson » Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:35 pm

A result of $13,800. Someone believed it was genuine. :shock:
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Re: Auction news

Postby swordcollector1 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:53 am

Will Mathieson wrote:A result of $13,800. Someone believed it was genuine. :shock:


That feeling will last right up until they start Googling the recipient's name and stumble upon this thread! :)

John
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Re: Auction news

Postby Richard » Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:15 pm

I bought this at Bonhams today (only just though eh Chris!). Very nice and very unusual hilt with a lot of additional engraved decoration. Blade by Runkel, 1801-16 arms, etc.
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Re: Auction news

Postby Rob O'Reilly » Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:15 am

Very nice Richard. Another interesting and unique 1796 for the collection.

Rob
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Re: Auction news

Postby Matt Easton » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:35 am

I thought that Part II of the Bates auction at Bonhams yesterday was very interesting. So many things going cheap. Any ideas why? Were people saving their money for the more expensive items, or was it because there were a couple of other auctions on the same day? Or do people just have less money?

Between us, a friend and myself got 4 items.

Nice to the see the Scinde Irregular Cavalry type sword achieve the price it should, despite the dubious description and valuation in the catalogue.
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Re: Auction news

Postby Will Mathieson » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:56 pm

Matt, blame Santa for taking everyones pennies. Wrong time of year for sales of that nature.
I have found that militaria sells in the spring and fall best, people are in a buying mood and have no other financial obligations.
It may be lean times for dealers too, I bet many of the lower priced swords end up on a website for more than double the money.
If it was not for this time of year I would have bought at least one, next time I'll save up for the Dec. deals.
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Re: Auction news

Postby Matt Easton » Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:03 pm

Personally I'm thanking Santa for giving me cheap swords. :D
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Re: Auction news

Postby Richard » Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:07 pm

Were you there Matt? What did you buy?
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Re: Auction news

Postby Matt Easton » Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:12 pm

Hi Richard, no I had to be in the office unfortunately, but I watched the auction online from there! A friend of mine was bidding for me - I got an early Wilkinson with a Guards hilt and non-regulation thrusting blade. I'm all about the early Wilkinsons and non-regulation blades/hilts these days. Had I been there in person I am pretty sure I would have picked up a couple more swords that seemed to go stupidly cheaply.
Regards,
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Re: Auction news

Postby Richard » Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:05 am

Matt,

Well done on your acquistions. I also thought a lot of the stuff went quite cheaply (esp the first lot - no. 1 - £100 hammer price I think!). The reasons for this, I think, are 1) there were 2 other auctions (Bosleys and Del Mar) on the same day and 2) there were an awful lot of relatively 'ordinary' swords in the sale - the rarer swords such as the IV QOLD regimental pattern went for good prices (that sword in particular £8000+) ; even the b&g 1796 LC swords were not that special - I quite liked the pipe-back (lot 20) but it had a mis-matched scabbard.

For myself, I bought lot 13 - the 1788 LC pattern - and that was quite expensive - but I missed out on the other one I really wanted - lot 207 early Georgian mameluke by Prosser which went for a staggering £4000. However, as a consolation, I did pick up a very nice 2nd Life Guards officer's sword by Hamburger Rogers & Co (lot 52) quite cheaply. This sword has the early 'Prosser-type' of hatchet-pointed blade which I think dates it to pre-1850 and evidences once again that the 2LG (and the RHG) started carrying these '12-stud' hilt swords a long time before the Dress Regulations of 1874.

Oh and by the way, it was me who bid up the Scinde Horse pattern to a decent price!

Richard
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Re: Auction news

Postby Matt Easton » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:44 pm

Good to hear you got some things you wanted, Richard.
I wonder whether the Scinde Horse sword went to one of our friends in Australia? I was surprised that the Bonhams valuers did not recognise what it was.
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Re: Auction news

Postby Richard » Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:23 pm

Matt Easton wrote:I wonder whether the Scinde Horse sword went to one of our friends in Australia?


I'm pretty certain it did (he's not on this forum but he used to be part of the old group)
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Re: Auction news

Postby Will Mathieson » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:29 pm

It pays to buy at auction, Some of Bates part 2 swords are appearing on dealer sites at over twice the rate.
Makes a difference when a sword that was auctioned off for over 5600gbp (incl. premium) is now being sold for almost 12,000. :shock: :shock:

But who does not like doubling their investment? :D
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Re: Auction news

Postby Matt Easton » Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:59 pm

True, but remember that's the asking price and it does not mean someone will pay it. ;)
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Re: Auction news

Postby hargrove999 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:23 pm

Makes a difference when a sword that was auctioned off for over 5600gbp (incl. premium) is now being sold for almost 12,000
Will - the sword in question is mine - a certain dealer has overstepped the mark here - he had it on a commission basis for a single potential acquirer - next thing I see it's up on his website without my permission; I shall be collecting it back in the morning ! I am looking to make about 20% on my investment.
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Re: Auction news

Postby Will Mathieson » Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:54 am

That does explain why it is no longer there. We see good markups with used vehicles but they are not one of a kind and do not remind one of something that was sold last week for much less. I think we are conditioned to expect this with cars.
I would think that your 20% is reasonable for a quick turnover of a good investment.
With reselling at high pricing it would be prudent to wait until a sword has faded from memory and not easily cross referenced on the web. Is it best to leave auction results on the web, they are public, or does it hurt the new owners of items?

As a friend reminds me, absorbitant prices do not prevent an item from selling, the "loon factor" :o that there is always someone who will pay the price.
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Re: Auction news

Postby Richard » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:29 am

I just spotted this on ebay - definitely not a P1796. The clue ought to be in the location (Sweden).
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Mc Tears 8 Oct 13

Postby Richard » Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:19 pm

Did anyone notice this rather nice presentation sabre by Tatham of the Ayr & Kilmarnock volunteer riflemen? I made a non-serious bid but it went for £7500 hammer in the end. Probably worth every penny.
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Re: Auction news

Postby sword335 » Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:14 am

Hi Richard,

You weren't the only one that was outbid ! With premium and VAT the price was £9500 which was probably enough when you take in to account the wear to the gilding and the fact that although it was by a good maker it was, in my humble opinion, a rather ugly hilt. The blade did look pretty good though but at that price I think I'd like to see the actual sword rather than just photos.
Hope the Book sales are booming.

Chris.
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